24 Responses to “The Trouble with WTC Asbestos”

1. John says:

   Monday, May 5, 2008 at 7:37 am

   Joe:
   This is a good piece of work. Thanks for the info.

   Reply
2. Xman says:

   Monday, May 5, 2008 at 8:35 am

   I held a hand of both my Grandfather and Great Uncle as they died from this disease, which they got at the Mare Island shipyard in Vallejo, California. A friend was an EMT at the WTC. Another friend helped carry that torn flag. I hear even a little exposure is enough.
   btw, and not to throw cold water on the suspicious coincidence of the WTC thing, but let’s not forget that in ‘93, terrorists had blown up the WTC. If I was Silverman, insurance against future terrorists might have been a prudent and responsible action. A landlord does have a responsibility to tenants and since there had already been one attack…..
   Plus, if I was a tenant looking to locate my business in the WTC, I know I’d have been more comfortable signing a lease for my business (and safety of my employee’s), knowing it was insured for terrorists…given the history.
   Finally, I used to be a facility manager for a national banking chain. Experts advised against asbestos removal, saying it was safer to leave it in place in many cases (floor tiles, etc.)

   I like conspiracy theories as much or more than the next guy, but I like to factor in as much info as possible.
   Thought my info would be helpful and thought provoking.

   Reply
3. JoeC says:

   Monday, May 5, 2008 at 11:09 am

   I agree there’s no big surprise that Silverstein bought a lot of insurance, but why would Silverstein — or anybody — buy a property with so many unsolvable problems in the first place? It reeks of the old strategy of paying arsonists to burn your own buildings to collect the insurance money, just taken to a level never seen before. Maybe Silverstein wasn’t in on it, but something about 9/11 stinks, and Silverstein is one of the many players who had a motive to play a part and a motive to be quiet. Not saying he’s guilty, just that there’s a motive there.

   Reply
4. Xman says:

   Monday, May 5, 2008 at 11:55 am

   Understood, Joe, and I agree.
   To support your Silverman theory…then he would have bargained for a real deal on the less than prime property, right? I don’t know if he got a deal or not.
   I wish we would get a real clear and easy to buy investigation/explanation of why #7 was knocked down, too. Leaving it unclear, leaves me with my suspicions.
   It would be logical to explain these things clearly and inspire confidence and support of the people. But then the Bush administration doesn’t honestly, openly and clearly document anything. As Bush once said: “I don’t feel I have to explain anything to anybody” (paraphrased somewhat). Thus we have the most distrusted administration that I know of. Hmmm…of course there was Nixon. Oh, then we found out all about Reagan. I wish all we had these days was cigars and blue dresses to talk about.

   Reply
5. Mike G says:

   Monday, May 5, 2008 at 4:09 pm

   The funny thing about asbestos fireproofing is that it was far superior to the alternate material that was substituted from the 40th floor upwards in Tower One and in the entire Tower Two. See this link http://www.junkscience.com/ByTheJunkman/20070118.html. Who knows if those may have still been standing on 9/12/01.

   From practical experience in the building trades, once the asbestos is in place, it’s quite safe. (air quality tests, etc) It’s the applicators who don’t take the required precautions that are truly at danger. That was the case for most of the shipyard workers who were spraying the stuff on day after day without even having respirators because they were told or just believed that this mineral stuff was non-toxic.

   Reply
6. JoeC says:

   Monday, May 5, 2008 at 7:54 pm

   Mike, from what I’ve read you’re right — as long as the asbestos is in place and contained, it’s pretty safe. The problem with the WTC was that it was time to add more power wiring for all the computers an office building has these days, and add additional stairways between floors, and refurbish things, and all that cutting into walls, etc., required exposing the asbestos to the occupants…and so, the building codes required areas to be cleaned up before being renovated…and so much renovation was needed that it was going to cost more than the buildings were worth — much cheaper just to rebuild them.

   Reply
7. Mike G says:

   Tuesday, May 6, 2008 at 6:35 am

   Joe, it’s the dose that makes the poison. The casual, infrequent breathing of asbestos fibers causing cancer has been refuted. All the studies demonstrating a definitive link were for mega-doses inhaled over prolong periods of time. The nearest thing to linking casual asbestos exposure to any form of cancer was a possible statistical correlation of approximately 3 deaths per 100,000 persons. This is only a statistical correlation and could (probably) be background noise in the data.
   The whole cancer scare came during the early years of environmentalism when the EPA established a zero-tolerance towards possible hazards. If mega exposure increased cancer risks, then they figured that any “dose” was dangerous. The problem is that that truism isn’t true.
   Getting back to the WTC; the minor work altering the asbestos should have had tenting and air cleaning during the asbestos work and the workers should be wearing respirators. The asbestos should have been patched with asbestos cement. While exposed, the existing asbestos could have sprayed with an encapsulating paint.
   The real sad part is that had the asbestos fire proofing been used throughout the towers, there is a good chance that they would still be standing.

   Reply
8. John says:

   Tuesday, May 6, 2008 at 6:43 am

   I’m not concerned with conspiracy so much as garden variety stupidity and irresponsibility, followed by cover-up.

   1. We’ve known since 1993 that the WTC was a target.
   2. The August 6 PDB told us the who, what, where, and how of the 911 attack (not when).
   3. Silverstein was smart enough to insure for terrorist attacks.
   4. Why weren’t air defences better prepared for intercept/shoot down.
   5. What information did Sandy Berger smuggle out of the National Archives?

   A simple lock on the cockpit doors might have prevented the whole thing.

   “Nobody lost their job over 9/11″ - John McCain.

   Reply
9. Peothre says:

   Friday, May 9, 2008 at 8:51 am

   Silverstein was probably a patsy. That’s how they unload these clonkers.

   Reply
10. Just some dude says:

    Friday, May 9, 2008 at 1:27 pm

    Silverstein was extorted by the the RICO front group known as KPMG to insure the Twin Towers for terrorist purposes to make it look like he’s responsible, partly anyways, for 9/11 i.e. Global Guardian ‘01 war game. He got roughly 10% of the final settlement as payment.

    Reply
11. ian coulson says:

    Friday, May 9, 2008 at 1:59 pm

    White, blue and brown asbestos are extremely carcinogenic. There are no safe levels, even small doses can result in mesothelioma, asbestosis, stomach, colon or throat cancer . The construction industryhas known this for the last 150 years, however, they have deliberately minimised the dangers and relied on the employee’s ignorance. Indeed, there are may instances in which employers have actively discouraged construction workers from wearimg respiratory equipment. There are also many other cases where the breathing filters equipment has been inadequate. It is simply untrue to say that small doses are not lethal. My father died of mesithelioma. He was a truck driver who delivered wood for a timber merchant; from time to time he would deliver a sheet or two of asbestosis sheeting to a buyer. He did not work in an enclosed space or breathe in large doses.

    Reply
12. JoeC says:

    Saturday, May 10, 2008 at 7:14 am

    In April 2007, the Centers for Disease Control stated that 62% of those who had been at or near the World Trade Center on the day that the towers collapsed are now suffering from permanent respiratory problems. Another 46% of those who were not there, but who live and work in the area now also suffer from respiratory problems. Mount Sinai Medical Center discovered that 85% of the 70,000 participants in its World Trade Center study are suffering from respiratory problems. Asbestos.com.

    First Resonder Deborah Reeves dies of mesothelioma cancer, which develops after exposure to asbestos.

    Reply
13. Dusty says:

    Sunday, May 11, 2008 at 11:00 pm

    Good info and very interesting comment thread Joe ;)

    Reply
14. Mike Conell says:

    Monday, December 29, 2008 at 10:48 pm

    Inside job. Twice! Way too many improbable coincidences. Put options, stand down orders, Northwoods report, PNAC, Cipro, Anthrax and so many more.

    Reply
15. Xman says:

    Tuesday, December 30, 2008 at 9:48 am

    The “casual dose not being lethal” argument is bunk. Whether it is currently in vogue or not.

    Three people very close to me have died from this disease.

    1. My Grandfather worked as an estimator at Mare Island Naval shipyard in Vallejo, California. He never touched the stuff. He just figured the cost of building ships and refits. They travelled the world in a desperate and illogical search for a “cure”. I went on some of these trips to Mexico, the Philipines, etc. Unfortunately, my Grandmother died of a heart attack 5 days after he died and was unable to sue.

    2. My Great Uncle worked in the same shipyard. His specialty was boiler rooms. Lots of the stuff in there. I was with him as he died a long and suffering death. Fortunately, my great aunt did sue and this was a great supplement to her meager retirement.

    3. My best friend died at age 32. We all looked for any way he could have been exposed. He was a motorcycle racer as a youth. Not a great one. Always rode back in the pack. His wife got a big payout when it was determined that he had breathed dust from motorcycle brake pads for the years he was in the sport. He left behind two beautiful children who will hardly have any memory of him.

    Reply
16. Indigobusiness says:

    Tuesday, December 30, 2008 at 10:38 am

    Another example of the consequences of a cultural pantheon
    ranking profit as a loftier god than prosperity.

    Reply
17. Xman says:

    Tuesday, December 30, 2008 at 12:22 pm

    Thanks Indigo.
    Not really changing the subject, but just apllying your comments to a different area.

    Your comment makes me think of Nicaragua. It was doing so much good for it’s people and then we financed the contras for so many years and finally brought misery back to their culture.

    Reply
18. Indigobusiness says:

    Wednesday, December 31, 2008 at 3:45 am

    Xman- What we did in Central America was brutal and tragic, and (like the W years) will continue to be consequential for who knows how long?

    It’s amazing how many in this country are ignorant of the blood on our hands.

    Reply
19. Xman says:

    Friday, January 2, 2009 at 6:12 pm

    If you have read: “Confessions of an Economic Hitman”, you suspect it is still going on and always will…everywhere.

    Reply
20. Indigobusiness says:

    Friday, January 2, 2009 at 8:36 pm

    Xman- Heard of the book, and I think I heard the author intvwed, but haven’t read it.

    I lived in Costa Rica for a couple of years, and I heard some things I wish I hadn’t. But, I saw something recently about Daniel Ortega re-emerging onto
    the scene so I’m hoping things are better.

    I’m not very savvy when it comes to politics and political intrigue, but even I saw through the lies and am appalled at the atrocities that seem to go unnoticed by the mainstream. The world seems to be getting bloodier, not more peaceful. It’s a crying shame.

    Reply
21. Xman says:

    Saturday, January 3, 2009 at 9:49 am

    Indigo,
    I agree. It also seems to be going more fascist.
    Last night the girl next door shoveling snow woke me up. For the next hour I made a list of all the negative things about human society(including her thoughtlessness). Feeling that bad triggered the need to make a list of all the good that would hopefully balance it. I came up short…and when I did the same thing to the entire history of mankind, I knew I’d never get to sleep. So I got up, ate big chocolate chip cookies and milk and watched Jet Lee and Mira Sorvino kill a bunch of bad guys.

    Reply
22. Indigobusiness says:

    Saturday, January 3, 2009 at 11:50 am

    Mira Sorvino is not bad consolation.

    Reply
23. Xman says:

    Saturday, January 3, 2009 at 12:30 pm

    Roger, that!

    Reply
24. caz says:

    Tuesday, February 24, 2009 at 9:26 pm

    Speaking of “spray-on” fire proofing material, there is likely a connection to NIST. Rather than me trying to spell it out, best to google “The Top 10 Connections between NIST and Nano thermite” by Kevin Ryan. Never mind the knee-jerk responses to this, just read the article and draw your own conclusions. :)

    Reply

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